About twice a month, someone on Facebook posts asking, “What does everyone think about Summit Joint Performance?!”
And every single time, my blood pressure rises as I see the MLM-ers flock towards it to promote and sell this product.
And I’ve had enough (and I know I’m not the only one).
So, here goes, debunking some of my favorite SJP arguments.
For starters, Summit = Chondroitin 4 Sulfate = Condranol
“They don’t need FDA approval because it already had it when it was used in humans!”
Oh. When it was used in ophthalmologic surgery (specifically cataract surgery and corneal transplants) as a coating to reduce rejection? Not exactly the same thing.
Per the FDA, it is not approved as an injection for horses. Or any animal. You cannot take a drug and use it for not only an entirely different use, but an entirely new patient population without at least talking to the FDA about it. (Yes, I am well aware this happens – see: sildenafil, spironolactone, previcox – BUT they all had recent drug FDA approvals to begin with, and then were secondarily approved for off label use)
“They’ve done studies in humans showing it works for osteoarthritis!”
Yes, they have done studies in humans! For osteoarthritis! That showed… “the symptomatic benefit of chondroitin is minimal or nonexistent. Use of chondroitin in routine clinical practice should therefore be discouraged.” Whoops. (Reichenbach et al. 2007)
“Oh, I/my trainer/my best friend/my cousin’s boyfriend/this girl I know who wins in the AA hunters uses it and our/their horses look amazing! or “It brought my arthritic horse back from the brink of death in one week!” or “It turned my three-legged lame retiree into a prelim horse!”
We’ll start with the obvious. Anecdotes are not scientific evidence, stories are not science, someone’s post on Facebook is not science. When you purchase something or want to believe something works – ever heard of the placebo effect?
Just a few others, for fun too. We’ve got a solid amount of bandwagon effect – “OMG everyone is using it, guess I should too!” How about confirmation bias? You just spent money on something, want to believe it works, so you’re looking for information to support what you want. It’s subconscious, no matter how objective you tell yourself you are being.
This doesn’t even touch the fact that if, and just IF, it happened to bring Mr. Sparkles back to being sound after you’ve exhausted all the other treatments… what the actual hell is in this drug? Yeah, meth can make me skinny, but at what cost? Or is it masking pain, while making underlying conditions worse? That’s just it: we don’t know.
“The company is totally going to do studies! They’re coming!”
Cool. Let me see them when they’re double-blinded, randomized, done by a reputable academic source and peer reviewed. We’ll talk then. Until that… pass.
“It was developed by a veterinarian though!”
One vet (with a vested financial interest, I might add) deciding to inject something with questionable (and scarce) evidence does not make a drug company. I know many veterinarians who are incredible, smart, great people – I have lots of respect for them (see: my family’s business who is in the veterinary industry). Having a doctorate of veterinary medicine (or any medicine or hell, any doctorate) does not automatically make you a good person, grant you wisdom or instill in you ethics. Go do a google search for veterinarians who have lost their licenses. Go ask your friends about the worst vet they’ve seen or used. Hell, ask your vet (the ones with professionalism will probably decline to say much more, but believe me they have the stories).
That doesn’t make every single one an expert in pharmaceutical research & development, much less production, quality control and manufacturing. Any who try to tell you differently don’t know their personal limitations and I’d stay FAR, far away.
“Oh, it’s a supplement, not a drug.”
Wow a truthful statement! Chondroitin is in fact regulated as a dietary supplement in the United States. But wait. That pesky word, dietary. Per the FDA, “the law defines dietary supplements in part as products taken by mouth that contain a “dietary ingredient.” So, SJP labeling itself as a supplement? Not truthful, nor legal. IF YOU INJECT IT, IT IS A DRUG.
And if we want to be real picky, per the FDA, anything for animal use promoting disease prevention or therapy is technically regulated as… a drug.
“It’s all natural, so it’s safe!”
So is cyanide.
“It’s manufactured in a clean facility though, it’s totally fine.”
This is coming from…? A Facebook comment from someone loosely affiliated with the company. With no verifiable evidence. And when you dig a little deeper – they claim it’s an ISO level 5 clean room, but this requires two to three airlocks, ante-room and single direction airflow. I’ll believe it when I see it. If anyone has an actual certification of their clean room, I’d love to see.
CS4, as a dietary supplement, has many known and reported inconsistencies in purity and chemical composition. The answers SJP gives when questioned? That their CS-4 is from bovine trachea from Argentina and Spain. Which doesn’t even begin to answer how they are ensuring purity, composition and quality control.
“I know we don’t have FDA approval; it’s not because they were turned down, it’s because they haven’t applied. It’s a personal choice to do so.”
I can’t wait to tell my friends in pharmaceutical manufacturing that FDA approval is a personal choice! Going to save them so much money!
The FDA has sent this company multiple letters informing them they were not to be selling injectable drugs without proper approval. Ignorance is no excuse here.
“Just because it’s not FDA approved doesn’t make it any less valuable to us!”
Actually, that’s exactly what it means.
“I’m not sharing testimonials, just my personal experiences with the product.”
“B12 is an injectable that isn’t a drug.”
It requires a prescription from a licensed medical professional and has years of sound scientific evidence behind it, not to mention is manufactured and distributed by qualified and credentialed medical sources.
I’m sure we’ll get more in the comments, and I’m downright looking forward to continue to debunk myths and red herring arguments. We haven’t even touched on the sketchy legal records of the founders of SJP or their MLM/Pyramid distribution scheme, because I wanted to specifically debunk the lack of science before more people go sticking needles full of God knows what into their horses, but we can totally do a round 2.
Update, 1/13/21: Round two is live!
I mean just because a vet develops or promotes something doesn’t make it good, I’ve seen some fucking terrible vets in my day lol
People not only r injecting this Summit in their animals they r injecting into their selves! Ive seen bottles with small granuales and yellow color. thell me about quality control theres none! its all a ponzie schem!! check the owners past out. and see what he was! then think about what ur doing to ur 4 legged friends
Literally stood up and cheered as I read this, you go girl
I am so confused as to how people buy brand new, not tested inject-able medications from people with no licenses or degrees and shoot up their horses with it… Are there vets recommending this stuff on the down low? Or are people so desperate to compete their retired horses that they are willing to try anything? Thanks for putting this together!
And what every idiot getting a covid shot? Talk about experiential drugs you must be a moron to trust the government and all of the people on FB posting “I got mine”. Sorry I’d rather inject myself with Summit then the covid vaccine.
That’s not how science works, but thank you for the great laugh.
Well said … it is really something isn’t it … creating this drama about Summit and they want us to stand in line like cattle to get a covid shot that has truly NOT withstood the test of time !!!
I’ve heard of summit but fortunately haven’t had to experience the joy of the cultists yet.
I’ve never heard of this but your snarky rebuttal to all of the claims is incredible.
Yep. Mind blowing isn’t it?
Girl, PREACH. I’m so freaking over this too. And we won’t even MENTION the owners of the company, one of whom posts “covid is a hoax” articles on facebook… you reaaaaallly wanna trust that kind of science??, and the other of which has built up a decent criminal record for myriad offenses. Or the fact that they said all kinds of completely insane shit during the Marilyn Little drama in her defense.
I just cannot.
I haven’t experienced this product yet, but oohhh I bet it’s coming! There are SO MANY things that fall into the category of “no science, just good marketing” that make me CRAZY. Thanks for taking a stand against this one!
Good post. I enjoyed reading it – now can you tackle all the pandemic cures out there?
Late to the party here, but THANK YOU!! I work in an equine vet practice, and apparently Summit also refuses to give more info to vets who are trying to do good research on the products for their patients. The whole thing is just SO. SHADY. Nice work calling them out!
I was just invited to a facebook group for this and my MLM alarm went off. Decided to do a little research to confirm it! I will keep this post close to reference it if needed!
So people are using it and the positive improvements they are seeing aren’t really there according to you? One of the vet offices in my area tells me that they are having positive improvements for animals where they tried everything else and this is what’s working. I want to understand why this string is so positive that it’s a negative thing? If it is truly helping equine and canines alike, where is the downside? Not looking to fight, but where is your proof it’s a hoax?
I have been using Summit on a small pony who couldn’t even get up because of laminitis – she was up & walking within 24 hours – gave her the loading doses & then maintenance & she continues to improve 💕🐴💕
Yikes – any supplement that masks severe laminitis would have me seriously questioning what the hell was in it and what further damage it may be allowing to happen. We have pain receptors for a reason.
What are the side effects of Summit on horses? I see in humans there is nausea, bloating, constipation, and diarrhea. Could these also occur in horses. I can’t find any information on this.
Is your pony still doing better?
It doesnt mask it , it has an antiinflammatory effect! I have used on myself personally when incapacitated for a year with lymes disease and no help from medical field!! Fact!!
I have had my gelding on Summit he had the loading dose then his first monthly all of the sudden he becomes stiff as hell, he is sore in his poll, neck, lays his ears back when I mount. I take him to my vet who is a cert equine chro..he is out all over she works in him. I take him home he still seems sore so had a massage therapist come in he is touchy on his chest,poll and guess what this horse has never been this way not once and the only change he had was Summit..now I don’t know if that is what caused the change, my sister in law uses it and has had no issue. What I can tell you is this was a horse that has never been lame, he has a small amount of carpal arthritis in a knee he injured but it has never caused him to be lame..but I thought maybe it might allow him greater movement now that he is 16..I do not know as I have said if it was the summit but what I do know is that he reacts to injections and these are injections..it took me months to decide because of that alone..I feel terrible now I am stopping the summit, he is on platnum performance cj as well and he will stay on that and if he gets better off the summit I will know..but we’ll always wonder if I caused this by the summit injections. Just my opinion and thoughts.
This happened to my Gelding and I took him off Summit and he is very happy.
Now my Mare is wonderful on Summit. So go figure.
Now, for her Legend did not work but giro my Gelding, it works great.
I have several FB friends pushing this. It seems like they’re getting some kind of payback because their posts are all so similar and tell me to ask them for more info if interested. No thanks. I’ll wait to see if my vet recommends it.
Thank you for posting this!
just a correction on b12: it does not require a DEA license. It is indeed a drug that requires a veterinary or medical professional to prescribe or use, but is not a controlled drug requiring DEA licensing. It requires the professional to have a veterinary license or medical license to practice medicine.
aside from that, the basis of this article is very accurate. I agree completely.
Omg. I love this. Spreading it like wildfire…..now! 🙌🏻👏🏻👏🏻
So.. a summit person talk my 76 year old mother into injecting this crap because “it would help with her aches and pains” She noticed nothing for a few weeks, then thought maybe it helped. The one day she had terrible chest pain and was rushed to the nearest hospital. Luckily we live near Mayo Clinic and she was air lifted there. Her Aorta from the top of her to her lower abdomen was completely dissected. She underwent 6 hours of a horrible complicated surgery. Had 2 minor strokes during surgery and weeks in the hospital recovering. She still is recovering at home with a very long road ahead of her. The drs are puzzled at what caused her dissection when she has never had a heart issue. .
I can’t say 100 percent that Summit caused it but I believe it did. My mom should have known better. She is stubborn and capable of making her own decisions and I don’t blame the person who gave it to her but I will never take a chance giving it to horse.
I have had a terrible experience using this product that a “friend” hounded me into buying. Now my poor horse has been in the vet clinic for three weeks and I’m praying he gets better and gets to come home. Think twice before you try this.
do you feel the same about MoveX? It’s not an MLM, but same product.
Why are you only calling out this one company? There are other companies offering similar products.
And I would (and do) say the same things about them. This is just the most popular name on the market and seems to be the most prevalent with people on social media, in barns, etc.
Thank you so much for saying what I’m thinking! Will share every. time. #evidencebasedpractice
I truly hope people will not just take your word for it and do their own research because they will find that tons of the huge titans in the horse industry are using Summit with great success! (sorry if that makes you sound like a nobody, not my intention) We have personally seen great results with Summit in our barn and as someone who was overly skeptical this stuff has worked for us!
Exactly Jake! This is not a myth buster it’s an opinion of someone that does not like something. People, do your own research and talk to your own vet.
The debate isn’t efficacy here (although I’d love to see real double-blinded academic research on that too), but on safety. Fact: there is no data on the safety of using Summit. No matter what names are using it or what someone says on the internet. Until there’s true, double-blind placebo controlled research, it’s claims are unproven.
Remember when everyone, including me, was injecting Adequan? And then a big study came out that it was just bunk? Ya. All the vets in the world were recommending it and now….crickets. So, I would say if it works for your horse then use it. If it does not then don’t. Biotin has no proof it works either…and yet my guess is 80% of all horses are on it.
I can not begin to tell you how much it has help my horse & dog. I’ve seen so many wonderful things happen when dosing with Summit Joint Performance.
Seeing is believing.
Would love for you to point me to that study re: Adequan, it’s not one I’ve seen in PubMed. But that’s the big difference here… true clinical research proving safety. The debate being had re: Summit isn’t efficacy (although I’d like to see that studied too), it’s safety. Anecdotes aren’t evidence.
I would love to read the Adequan study too. I use Adequan with success and under the recommendation of my vet.
I started taking the new oral human loading dose last month and I have had no joint pain since my maintenance dose 22 days ago, hopefully I will make it to 30 days. I have been on glucosamine for 27 years but it was not controlling the inflammation and pain any longer. Because I am very satisfied with this product, I have ordered the injectable canine loading dose for my senior arthritic dog and for my cat with an inflamed bladder that a vet said had helped 100% of her patient’s cats. As badly as so many people and animals need help with their joints, etc, I think it is a shame to discourage people from trying products that are having a lot of success. I have been incapacitated numerous times and don’t intend to be that way again.
To answer your question why would anybody inject their horse with Summit….it was our last effort to bring comfort to our mare that we were seriously considering put down because of extreme arthritis in her knee. Did it turn her her around enough that she became potentially a completive performance horse, no. However, it did work well enough that it gave her comfort and quality of life without pain. I have no regrets trying Summit. That said I would be hesitant to try it on a younger horse, especially mares in the middle of their performance career.
I’m a rep and I agree. Eternapure Pure literally got me on my feet. Summitjp.com saved my Lincoln from years of allergies
Wow, it even cures allergies now. A true miracle.
The vet tech/equine denstist who sold it to me (in a moment of weakness) really pushed me to sign up while she was still there. Then pushed me (I didn’t) to sign up for automatic refills. The Ponzi scheme thing is that these pushers get money for each person they sign up. I didn’t realize that until later.
And she also touted it for eye infections in my horse. Not approved for any use in horses; eyes or joints. Not approved for injections in any creature. I’m throwing it out. There are plenty of other options that have more legitimacy than this stuff.
Hey Jim just a thought. To avoid yourself any further embarrassment. You may want to do your diligence and research if chondroitin sulfate is FDA approved for use on as you say “use on any creature”
What you find out may surprise you. Following the rest of the herd with your unsubstantiated claims highlights a character flaw of yours, as having a reactivate personality. Gaslighting isn’t a good look my friend. Take care
I have a 22 year old gelding who has been on Summit for a year now. He is still in performance and doing well on it. I have taken the time to read through all the comments. I do believe there are some that respond well and some that might not. That is unfortunate. I am thankful I did not read all of this prior to trying it – because I probably WOULD NOT have tried it and it has been a benefit to my horse’s movement – that is all I can say from my experience.
I think it is also very important for responses to come from those who have actually tried it on a horse and can say the results they saw (good or bad) are directly from Summit and maybe not other supplements they are giving or extenuating circumstances that might have nothing to do with Summit.
All you need is one bad batch of this stuff, and it’s all over for whose been injected with it. Case in point…a compounding lab in MA, New England Compounding Center, google it, and you will see how precarious this Summit supplement is.